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 Effects of grafting on variegated scions

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IXOXI
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PostSubject: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Sat Feb 25, 2012 10:30 pm

Hi,
I can't find the reference, but I think I may have seen somewhere that grafting a variegated seedling will sometimes change it. If I remember right, I think I saw something about it being possibly specific to Pereskiopsis. Does anyone know if that is true, or have any experiences with it? I have 5 variegated seedlings at the moment, mostly Astrophytum species, and I am wanting to graft them, but am worried about possible loss of the colouration.
Thanks in advance.
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T S



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PostSubject: Re: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Sun Feb 26, 2012 3:32 am

Hi,

I have a variegated Astrophytum grafted on Hylocereus (grafted > 1 year) which, had turned all green after I applied a new fertilizer. So, I belief fertilizer is a one of the 'greening' agent.
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cactuscook
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PostSubject: Re: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:56 am

I have some astrophytum myriostigma kikko koyo that when on own roots shows little color but when grafted the color is enhanced. Some traits from grafting stock do show through but dont change the character of scion too much. If something is variegated then i think it has variegated genes for example i have had green offsets come from a variegated plant grafted it and then it produce several variegated offsets. I have had totally green plants taken an offset and grafted it to see that in time a variegated offset appeared to my surprise.
IXOXI i would graft them they have a variegated gene so even if they go green offspring may produce variegated plants.
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IXOXI
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PostSubject: Re: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:56 pm

Thank you, I think I will go ahead and graft them.
I wonder if anyone out there has some variegated Hylocereus for sale - It would be pretty cool to use them as grafting stock Smile
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trigonus II

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PostSubject: Re: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:23 pm

Wouldn't a variegated stock produce slow or staggered growth?

From my understanding the part of the plant that is variegated (sometimes the whole plant) lacks chlorophyll and therefore wouldn't have the same strength and vigour associated with a non variegated root stock.

I can see where you are coming from and the idea is interesting in itself. Just seems like a one step forward, two steps back kind of situation to me.

I am no expert on this, just throwing some ideas out there.

I will be keen to hear from people who may have tried this in their experimentation.
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IXOXI
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PostSubject: Re: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:52 pm

I read an article that showed multiple types of variegation and in fact, said that some forms are actually natural chimerae. The nutrients still spread through the plant as normal, just in some areas lacking the chlorophyll. So the growth is even. From what I know, only when the plant has a high to complete lack of chlorophyll does it stunt (or prevent) the growth.
I can look to see if I can locate the articles on it and post links. My biggest concern is losing the variegated trait if the root stock alters it too much.
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IXOXI
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PostSubject: Re: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Sun Feb 26, 2012 2:10 pm

I think that what I can do, is for the sake of future workings, is to photo document all of the grafts.
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trigonus II

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PostSubject: Re: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:23 pm

I for one would be interested in your results.
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Hellonasty
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PostSubject: Re: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:28 am

I grafted two variegated Astro Asterias about a month ago, both are still small. The variegation appears to have continued in much the same fashion as before the graft.

I too would like to see the results of your little experiment.

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numan

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PostSubject: Re: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:35 pm

it seems it is a common problem.. here are 2 pictures "before" and "after"... plants are not mine, just a good example!



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IXOXI
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PostSubject: Re: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:50 pm

I don't know that I want to graft them now, lol. Though the genes should still be present. Grrrrrr.... What to do
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Hellonasty
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PostSubject: Re: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:35 pm

Both plants above look grafted to me???

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trigonus II

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PostSubject: Re: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:51 pm

@numan, how can you be sure they are the same plant? They do look very similar, but may, in fact, be different?


@IXOXI, maybe graft a few, speed things up while maintaining the variegated genetics. Hopefully get some pups, de-graft them and grow on own roots. Though not too sure about Astros pupping that profusely as a grafted plant. Something to think about (though possibly risky) is damaging the apical meristem and inducing pups to form. Pretty sure there is a product (synthetic hormone?) called BAP that can be used to a similar end.

Also, keep a few on own roots and slow grow them, sure, it's slow, but rewarding.

I still reckon you should try and get some variegated stocks and try some experimentation with those too. Not too sure how easy they will be to get, but there is certain to be some around somewhere.

Maybe post a thread in the trade and sell forum regarding variegated Trichos/Myrtles/Stenos/Selenis and/or Hylo, you never know what might turn up.
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IXOXI
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PostSubject: Re: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:57 pm

Sound advice Trigonus, Thanks! I think that's exactly what I'm going to do, although it will be hard to keep a couple on their own roots, as I'm not really patient.Tomorrow when it's light out, I'll try to do some photos before I graft them.
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trigonus II

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PostSubject: Re: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:59 pm

Definitely post up some pics.

Here's something to research before the sun comes up Wink

6-Benzylaminopurine
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IXOXI
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PostSubject: Re: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:00 pm

How easy is it to get out here?
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PostSubject: Re: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:03 pm

If it was a true variegation, grafting should not affect.
The drgree of variegation will change following the plant growing.
Sometime it is increased and also is decreased in both of own-rooted and grafted.

The photo is a grafted true variegated asterias, taken photo in 2008.
The true variegation can transfer the gene through seeds.
This variegated flower can make variegated plants by crossing with any type of asterias.
It is now 2012 and this asteriase still is variegated.
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IXOXI
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PostSubject: Re: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:15 pm

Very nice Astro Hanazono! And thank you for the information.
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PostSubject: Re: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Tue Feb 28, 2012 5:22 am

Does the amount of light effect variegation? Variegated ficus, when placed in shade, tend to go green (I think producing more chlorophyll to compensate for lower light levels) and the plants kept in stronger light tend to have very little green on their leaves.
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PostSubject: Re: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:49 pm

mughal113 wrote:
Does the amount of light effect variegation? Variegated ficus, when placed in shade, tend to go green (I think producing more chlorophyll to compensate for lower light levels) and the plants kept in stronger light tend to have very little green on their leaves.


No light will not affect variegation. However heavily variegated plants tend to get sun burn easily and are often weaker plants.

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PostSubject: Re: Effects of grafting on variegated scions   Sat Mar 31, 2012 7:20 pm

mughal113 wrote:
Does the amount of light effect variegation? Variegated ficus, when placed in shade, tend to go green (I think producing more chlorophyll to compensate for lower light levels)
This is the observation and theory I have come to also.
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