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 Stocks Vs Stocks

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Hellonasty
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PostSubject: Stocks Vs Stocks   Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:55 am


Here I will list several popular grafting stocks, their advantages+, disadvantages-, Preferred stocks and some tips for optimal growth.



Pereskiosis Spathula: +Very vigorous growth, of stock and scion once successfully grafted +Roots easily even from small sections >2cm +Great stock for young seedlings <2months (older is ok just not preferred) +Can be mass propagated quickly and easily +Very resistant to rot +Can handle humid environments.

-Can be difficult to obtain a vigorous growth in some climates (dry and/or cold usually) -Not so good for larger scions due to small width and vascular bundle -Only a temporary stock growth slows down dramatically at around 12-16months due to graft hardening and going "Woody". These scions will need to be grafted to a permanent stock or degrafted and rooted. -A poor choice for Astrophytum -May morph or disturb the form and genetic growth pattern of a plant. Ususally due to such vigorous growth.

Preferred Scions: Lophophora - Lophos just love pereskiopsis and in grafting terms are a match made in heaven. They take easily and will grow very rapidly. For seedlings I use 80% humidity for 2-6 days.

Ariocarpus - Ario seedlings can be grafted to preskiopsis sucessfully. With practice 70%+ success is achievable. 70-80% Humidity for 6-20days depending on what ario your using. Will grow rapidly.

Trichocereus - Easy to graft, grow rapidly.

Aztekium - Preferred way to grow this plant but still relatively difficult to graft sucessfully. Aztekium is extremely difficult to degraft and root but can be re-grafted to a permanent stock.

Turbinicarpus - Can be grafted sucessfully, is a preferred stock for seedlings.

Growth Tips : Plenty of water, ferts and light. Dislikes direct sun.




Trichocereus : +Most trichos exhibit similar success and growth rates and are generally a fantastic stock for larger plants +Accepts a broad range of scions +Fast grower, easy to propagate and root +Permanent stock +Will tolerate some humidity.

-Must dry out at some point or will rot -Slower growth in scions than pereskiopsis -Require lots of light if grown indoors -poor choice for aztekium -Poor choice for seedlings (but can be done).

Preferred Scions: Will accept most scions. Great for Lophophora, Ariocarpus.

Growth Tips: Moderate watering (must dry out), some direct sun.



Hylocereus Undatus: +Grows fast +Easy to propagate, Fast rooting, produces many offshoots +Preferred stock for Astrophytum +Accepts most scions +Generally an easy stock to graft to.

-Requires regular watering -Can be prone to rot -Centre is woody and can dislodge younger scions -Does not like long periods of humidity.

Preferred Scions: Astrophytum - Very high success rates can be achieved with both seedlings and larger plants. The requirement here is use a young stock for a young scion.

Growth Tips: Regular watering, some full sun.



Myrtillocactus Geometrizans: +Very versatile +Accepts most larger scions +High graft success rates +Hardy +Permanent stock +Good for Aztekium +Resistant to rot +Will tolerate humidity.

-Poor choice for seedlings -Slower stock growth than Pereskiopsis or hylocereus -Difficult to root in cooler climates -slower scion growth than all stocks above.

Preferred Scions: Almost anything worth grafting will grow on this stock.

Growth Tips: Likes it hot in direct sun, regular watering.




The following is a list of plants that MAY make good grafting stocks. Please let me know if anyone has used one or any of them sucesfully.

Harrisia jusbertii - Supposed to be good.

Opuntia sp - Also good. I actually have a few of these that appear to have just taken I will post back later with results.

Rhipsalis sp - Not sure. no info but have seen a few good looking grafts.

Stenocereus Pruinosus - No info





EDIT: additional info EDIT: More info













Last edited by Hellonasty on Fri May 16, 2008 5:14 pm; edited 3 times in total
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trigonus
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Fri Apr 11, 2008 9:40 am

Great write up! I will sticky it.

Quote :
Turbinicarpus - (not known?? Anyone?)

I know Peres is the preferred stock for T. psuedopectinatus & var. rubriflora seedlings.

Not sure about the others some one might know? I will look into it.

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Hellonasty
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:33 am

Thanks, I wrote that up fairly quickly I hope there is not too many mistakes. I will add some pics and extra details when I get a chance.

Also anyone with info on what else is a good performer on Hylocereus please let me know, as I have little experience with them apart from astros. I'm looking at you Kada ?
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Kada
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Sat Apr 12, 2008 2:56 am

Nice write up man Smile

Turbs should be fine on pereskiopsis. i think many cacti as seedlings do well on pereskiopsis, but many are generally hard as a rule (like ariocarpus are much harder than astrophytum, but still do well once they take). i dislike Pereskiopsis becauase it almost always deforms the scion to a pretty un natural level. often i graft seedlings to peresk then regraft to something else when they are 1-2 cm range. but thats just me. if you like lots of pups, keep em on longer Smile

i think everything is good on Hylocereus, the only thing is not everything is easy to graft to it Smile in my limited toying i have found softer bodied cacti harder to graft to hylocereus. Lophophora for example. harder/firmer sp. do much better (like astrophytum and aztekium).

with larger scions i rarely use humidity tents, i just graft indoors. but with hylocereus i always have to use a baggie on top, and make sure the tape job was good. i only have maybe a 30-40% success with Lophophora to Hylocereus, but the ones that take often grow 4-6cm in a year...that is hard to beat!



EDIT. IS that Kikko yours? that is a killer one man! hate to know how much $ it was Shocked was it grafted to hylo before?
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Hellonasty
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:15 pm

Thanks Kada. Sadly the Kikko is not mine, I have tried to buy it with no luck. Yeah it was grafted not sure of the stock.
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:31 am

I was just curious about sulcrorebutia for grafting. Would peres be okay for this, or some other stock?
Would it be best to keep the scion quite short in this case?

any advice appreicated.
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trigonus
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:30 pm

Peres is generally for small seedlings only.

Did some more reading up on it Hellonasty and it wouls seem that Peres is the common grafting stock for most, if not all Turbinicarpus sp. seedling grafts. You may as well add that to your stock list above.

EDIT: I've actually got a T. psuedopectinatus var. rubriflora on a Peres that has taken (I think) as I have previously mentioned, I still haven't got the hang of Peres grafting.

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Tue Apr 29, 2008 11:18 am

Thanks trig. Let us know how the graft goes.
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:58 am

You missed out on the greatest scion of all, Gymnocalycium mihanovichii lol!
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trigonus
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Sun Jul 06, 2008 1:12 pm

Quote :
Thanks trig. Let us know how the graft goes.

Graft failed. I knocked it off the stock (again!! Rolling Eyes I need more space), I kinda lost the plot a bit when that happened as it is a long list of Peres failures. The Peres involved is sadly no longer with us... Twisted Evil


Quote :
You missed out on the greatest scion of all, Gymnocalycium mihanovichii

Huh? How is that a good stock dude? lol

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:16 pm

he said good scion.

you also forgot the most obvious negative of Hylocereus undatus as a stock; its cold tolerance, or rather, cold intolerance.
also cereus peruvianus is a good stock, fast growth but it ultimately becomes woody with age, although if it is being compared to pereskiopsis and trichocereus it cannot be discounted for this.
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:47 pm

I did some Astrophytum on Opuntia tests last week - both 2 & 3 mm plants and 10 - 15 mm plants. so far so good after about 7 days - I moved them into a growing environment today so we will see for sure. I will post results.
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Sun Jul 06, 2008 4:55 pm

Quote :
he said good scion

So he did. I should probably read things more thoroughly before posting.

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Sun Jul 06, 2008 6:46 pm

Trig, sorry to hear about your graft what a bummer.

Lewis, Didn't really think about cold tollerance of Hylo beacause it has no problems with the coldest of winter where I live. We don't have frosts very often so they do just fine, they never actually stop growing in winter even. I will update the list.

Also I will update with Cereus Peruvianus but I personally don't like it as a stock. Scion growth is pretty slow in comparison to tricho and trichos will accept a much larger range of scions too making it a far beter choice. Peruvianus is widely available but so is spach !

Watertrade, Good work. I had a Astro S.K seedling grafted to opuntia and it was growing really well but the bloody thing ended up rotting during my "lopho devistation" a month ago Sad
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trigonus
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Sun Jul 06, 2008 8:58 pm

I have a loph grafted onto a Cereus peruvianus, whilst it looks pretty healthy I haven't noticed any new growth to speak of, was grafted around 6 months ago. If a pic is desired I will post one in the next couple of days.

IMO they aren't as good as Trichos for grafting and they are just so damn ugly. I noticed you mentioned T. spach as a grafting stock, have you had much experience with these as stocks? I have heard from many that they have a much shorter 'stock life' than say T. pach. Bit of a shame if it's true as the spach is a dime a dozen and is a very vigorous grower and a prolific pup producer, potentially a wonderful stock. Would like to hear a bit of fedback from several people actually, regarding the usefulness and longevity of T. spachianus as a grafting stock.

I will add I prefer T. pachanoi as a stock if using trichos, though next season and the following ones I intend to experiment using various clones as grafting stocks. These would include 'Super Pedro' for it's thick robust growth, 'psycho0' for it's ease of growth, width and free flowering habit, 'Eileen' purely because she is a beast of a Tricho and also 'Yowie' because it's just a nice looking cactus and is a fast grower and is very fat stemmed. Have a few 'Yowie' clone cuts getting ready for the spring grafting run.

Will do a write up on my progress, would also like feedback on this from people who have tried some of these clones for stocks, could be a really interesting project and am looking foward to seeing what the outcome will be. Huge plump monster Mexicans hopefully Cool

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Sun Jul 06, 2008 9:06 pm

Another thought. Anyone tried other Trichos at all? I have read that in Europe T. pasacana is a useful stock as is T. poco (is a ssp. of another Trich I believe, the name escapes me for now), was just thinking that T. tersheckii (a real beast)could make a decent stock as would other large growing Trichs.

Also has anyone ever tried Pachycereus sp. I was thinking along the lines of Pachycereus pringlei another beast, also Pachycereus pecten-aboriginum might be worth a try?

Would love to hear back about experiences with any of these as I will consider getting some and trying them but if they are destined to fail I might not bother.

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Sun Jul 06, 2008 10:58 pm

Trig,

The kk242/t.cuzcoensis is a large Tricho "Beast" as you put it, I wonder how it would perform. I also have a gigantic T.Scop "Hulk" I got from a member at SAB, I will try grafting onto this thing soon. It is seriously massive and I have a few cuts growing. Do you
know this one ?

Not sure re Pachycereus, sure is a big plant. Due to the very woody core and thick skin I think it would reject many scions but you just never know. Pachy does not grow all that fast either. Hmm I food for thought.
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Sun Jul 06, 2008 11:01 pm

What about Harrisia jusbertii. I just got my hands on one of these and on all accounts are very reliable fast growing stocks. Does anyone have exprience ?
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:25 pm

If a graft on just about anything hasn't grown at all in 6 months then chances are the vascular rings are not aligned properly! It still could have a spurt next spring, so don't give up on it just yet.

I suppose in your climate hylocereus is probably a good grafting stock but here it is generally short-lived. (yes, i have seen exceptions of over 10 years but these are exceptions). it really dislikes the cold winters.

trigonus wrote:
I I noticed you mentioned T. spach as a grafting stock, have you had much experience with these as stocks? I have heard from many that they have a much shorter 'stock life' than say T. pach. Bit of a shame if it's true as the spach is a dime a dozen and is a very vigorous grower and a prolific pup producer, potentially a wonderful stock. Would like to hear a bit of fedback from several people actually, regarding the usefulness and longevity of T. spachianus as a grafting stock.
It is widely used and recommended down here as a stock. i plan to use it next spring, being the only Tricho i have. it is generally considered to be preferable than hylocereus because of its cold tolerance. negatives would include abundant areoles capable of offset production, and the spines. otherwise excellent, extremely vigorous growth rate. Short lived? never heard that before and i have seen Uebie pects last over 25 years on it!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:18 pm

HN, never heard of cusco being used but I reckon it could be a winner, hmm got some 'gnosis' here which is a KKoid, might try that too. Yeah I have heard of the 'hulk' clone. If you end up with any spares next season or the one after a trade might be in order?

Hmm Pachy sounds like a no go. Have always wanted to try H. jusbertii, never come across in Aus yet. Obviously you did though.

No the vascular rings are fine lewis, I have done enough grafting to know about all that. I suspect a bit more sun and a repot might see some growth, it has grown a little bit, just not enough to worth mentioning really.

Strange, as I said I have spoken to many people who don't like spach because of it's longevity as a stock, maybe it depends on the climate, growing conditions etc.?

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Mon Jul 07, 2008 5:57 pm

possibly. i have never even heard of it being short lived at all, quite the opposite. for example, here (due to the climate) you are lucky to get 3 years out of a common red variegated Gymnocalycium mihanovichii grafted to hylocereus. but the same scion grafted on T.spachianus they can last over 15 years and still be going strong. i have also seen an Espostoa crest grafted on Tricho spachianus that was over 15 years old and still fine. Admittedly the 25 yr old Uebie pect grafts i mentioned above were very woody, but i suppose this can be expected with any stock of that age.
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:23 pm

Hmm might give the spach a go next season if I have enough scion material. Sounds better than I thought it was.

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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Mon Jul 07, 2008 6:33 pm

in fact here it is often used and recommended for use as a long term stock, for scions that were first grafted to pereskiopsis or hylocereus etc.
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:07 pm

Completely off topic, but, i really want someone to graft a Carnegia to another stock and see how it pumps up and takes off.
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PostSubject: Re: Stocks Vs Stocks   Tue Jul 08, 2008 7:08 pm

i want to see that too. one problem i can see is finding a stock that lasts long enough to endure a Carnegiea's lifespan! Laughing hmm how easy is it to root carnegia cuttings?
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